simon
New Member
Posts: 38
|
Post by simon on Aug 23, 2015 1:13:37 GMT
I know this is Buck's forum but this quote was posted on one of the BOC facebook pages, so just for the sake of debate, what do we all think? Maybe Buck can comment
"We did this record called Mirrors where there was almost no collaboration at all, on arrangements or anything else. That record had a minor hit with a song called “In Thee,” but the fans, the critics hated it, even the record company hated it. They all thought it was underwhelming and I came to this decision that, you know what, maybe this isn’t the way to do it. Maybe what made us great in the first place was all that collaboration. So I convinced them all that we had to go back to writing songs the way we did in a more collaborative way, go back to trying to be unique, having a unique perspective over whether or not it was commercial." - Albert Bouchard
|
|
|
Post by blueoysterdvp on Aug 23, 2015 12:37:22 GMT
Still love Mirrors. Maybe I'm one of the few. To each his own. Was managing record stores when it was out. In store play sold many copies. WBCN Boston played In Thee, Dr. Music and The Vigil, I'm Not the One in heavy rotation. Was a hit in Boston area. I don't like every album sounding the same like ACDC. No variation there. They have a core of fans that love that same sound over and over. After For Those About... There albums were repetitive. BÖC took some nice chances to prevent that. Their Mirrors tour with acoustic In Thee, The Great Sun Jester, The Vigil etc. complimented the back catalog songs nicely. Great mix of styles. Albert did say I'm Not The One was influenced by The Cars. Boston loved it. Never heard a WBCN DJ call it a Cars ripoff. Enough said, I love Mirrors.
|
|
harley
Junior Member
Posts: 79
|
Post by harley on Aug 23, 2015 13:41:12 GMT
Make no mistake, I was standing at the record stores door waiting for them to open to purchase Mirrors the day it came out, as I did for Spectres and SEE. Took me a few spins but it grew on me pretty fast. Maybe too many knobs were tweaked. I enjoy all the live versions better of everything on there.. (only Moon Crazy and Lonely Teardrops were never performed live as far as I know) Nothing against Genya Ravan and Ellen Foley but I prefer The Demo of the Title cut from the Archives better with Sandy Roeser's backing vocal.
Side note; Talking with Eric about the Mirror's album many years ago, he said that Tom Werman didn't even want him near the studio if he wasn't there do lay down the vocals! LOL
|
|
|
Post by James on Aug 24, 2015 10:24:18 GMT
I've always loved Mirrors and The Vigil, in my opinion, is one of the best songs BÖC recorded. If I skip a track it's the Great Sun Jester but otherwise, a great collection of tunes. Just listened to it last week.
|
|
|
Post by blueoysterdvp on Aug 24, 2015 11:19:49 GMT
Nothing against Genya Ravan and Ellen Foley but I prefer The Demo of the Title cut from the Archives better with Sandy Roeser's backing vocal. Side note; Talking with Eric about the Mirror's album many years ago, he said that Tom Werman didn't even want him near the studio if he wasn't there do lay down the vocals! LOL I made that statement on a FB page with Zone in the title about liking the Archives version of Mirrors better than the official release Harley. I got lambasted for mentioning Mirrors at all! I don't care though. Everyone listen to what you want. Some of us old school BÖC fans actually do like the variations and different musical styles BÖC has made since the debut album. As mentioned in my above post.
|
|
|
Post by duckbarman on Aug 24, 2015 11:48:39 GMT
With the exception of two obvious tracks, the overwhelming feeling I was left with after Mirrors was one of disappointment at being let down by my favourite band... I spent about two weeks trying to convince myself that this a was a great LP but in the end I just gave in and stopped playing it... I VERY nearly didn't buy Cultosaurus as a result of this experience, but luckily for me I gave them the benefit of the doubt based on everything that had gone before (pre-Mirrors)...
When you grow up with a band you really resent it when they suddenly seem to head off in what you perceive to be a different direction - not just musically, even the picture on the back cover was disappointing - I know the band was pictured on Spectres, but that was mysterious, enigmatic, ethereal... Mirrors was just... well, disappointingly-normal...
That early resentment imprinted itself into my own personal matrix of experience to the extent that - even today - I can't bring myself to play that record. For example, to this day, I CANNOT drink cider due to an early over-indulgence in my teens - that experience is locked in and I can't fight it. Mirrors is a bit like that for me...
:-(
|
|
|
Post by Buck on Aug 24, 2015 17:41:42 GMT
Mirrors has no lyric by Pearlman, or Meltzer. BOC was breaking from the orginal mold, with arguably negative results for the fans. Some of the songs are weak. Also, the arrangements were 'way too safe and straining to be commerical. Perhaps Tom Werman wasn't the best choice for producer, as he didn't really press us to be innovative. I still like my stuff on that record, and we still play 'Vigil' and 'In Thee' with success today.
Looking back, it was mainly disappointing to those expecting another Secret Treaties, or even another Spectres. But then we made Cultosaurus, which I think is great, and really didn't sell either.
|
|
|
Post by edog40 on Aug 24, 2015 18:21:43 GMT
I always wondered why a ballsier version of I Am the Storm hasn't been done live.
|
|
|
Post by blueoysterdvp on Aug 24, 2015 18:38:00 GMT
Mirrors has no lyric by Pearlman, or Meltzer. BOC was breaking from the orginal mold, with arguably negative results for the fans. Some of the songs are weak. Also, the arrangements were 'way too safe and straining to be commerical. Perhaps Tom Werman wasn't the best choice for producer, as he didn't really press us to be innovative. I still like my stuff on that record, and we still play 'Vigil' and 'In Thee' with success today. Looking back, it was mainly disappointing to those expecting another Secret Treaties, or even another Spectres. But then we made Cultosaurus, which I think is great, and really didn't sell either. Still love Mirrors!
|
|
|
Post by Parker Dude on Aug 24, 2015 19:59:14 GMT
Cultosaurus didn't sell well ??
Are you kidding ??
That's one of the best albums you put out IMHO.
|
|
|
Post by JCHarper on Aug 24, 2015 20:03:46 GMT
Cultosaurus didn't sell well ?? Are you kidding ?? That's one of the best albums you put out IMHO. I agree. I love Cultosaurus.
|
|
|
Post by James on Aug 24, 2015 21:21:30 GMT
Cultosaurus is phenomenal. Black Blade is the first BÖC song I ever heard and the one that got me hooked. I remember not loving Hungry Boys though I came to really dig that one too.
|
|
|
Post by blueoysterdvp on Aug 24, 2015 21:36:42 GMT
Cultosaurus was another great in store play seller. That's when I managed a record store in Pittsburgh area. I was always bias for playing lots of Cult in store and soon after my employees got hooked on BÖC. We always put them in heavy rotation no matter what city I worked in. I let them play the entire catalog as long as the album was in stock. Of course we played all the top Billboard sellers too but if someone put BÖC on once every 2 hours no complaints from me. We were guaranteed to sell copies of whatever album we played. After the Black and Blue tour hit the steeltown we couldn't keep Cultosaurus in stock for about a month. Great tour. VERY HEAVY! BÖC closed that night. Saxon filled in for Shakin' Street and they had a song called Wheels Of Steel that really got the Pittsburgh crowd going. Like Buck said I'm surprised it didn't chart as well as it should have on the Billboard charts. Going by the number of copies that went through our doors I would've thought it went Gold. Monsters and Deadline should've gotten monster FM airplay.
|
|
|
Post by eastmark on Aug 25, 2015 0:24:11 GMT
When I heard CE when it was released a few consecutive times as we did back then...about the second time thru...I was convinced it would be bigger than AOF which obviously included DFTR.
Really strong album to this day.
|
|
|
Post by markus on Aug 25, 2015 16:19:09 GMT
Mirrors has no lyric by Pearlman, or Meltzer. BOC was breaking from the orginal mold, with arguably negative results for the fans. Some of the songs are weak. Also, the arrangements were 'way too safe and straining to be commerical. Perhaps Tom Werman wasn't the best choice for producer, as he didn't really press us to be innovative. I still like my stuff on that record, and we still play 'Vigil' and 'In Thee' with success today. Looking back, it was mainly disappointing to those expecting another Secret Treaties, or even another Spectres. But then we made Cultosaurus, which I think is great, and really didn't sell either. I believe Dr Music was a Meltzer lyric, but not in the vein from his previous collaborations with BOC, so I understand your viewpoint. Would you be willing to share as to what you believe were the weakest tracks and any insights as to any ideas the band regarding different arrangements. Interesting that Werman was pushing the commercial angle but then allowed a progressive type track such as The Vigil. Werman is, in my opinion, a fantastic producer; the material he did with Cheap Trick is flat out amazing and regardless of what one thinks of the Mirrors material, its fidelity quality is outstanding.
|
|