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Post by markus on Nov 15, 2016 2:32:35 GMT
LOL Les sings much better now There's no doubt that as one gains experience the knowledge base broadens, I thought that as a relatively 'young' singer he sounds darn good - good phrasing, good articulation, doesn't seem to be running out of breath, etc. You can definitely hear the Morrison'ish vibe that caught the record company's attention.
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Post by Buck on Nov 15, 2016 9:56:00 GMT
It's a Richard Meltzer lyric, can't remember the name of the song. Albert might remember. OK, I'll ask, Les doesn't know either - by the way - that "Patron of the Arts" song sounds pretty different to me from the rest of the SWU output - it's almost got a punk rock vibe... not that SWU had a "collective" sort of sound that you could label as "this" or "that" - so many influences seem to be at work... "Patron" was a Les lyric. Of course it's going to be different than the Pearlman/Meltzer songs. The artistic clash between Les' songs and the Pearlman vision for the band led to Les' departure. I'm sure Les was frustrated he couldn't pursue his own direction while most of the material came from Sandy and Richard. Remember, Les was the only writer with a track record at that point, having written "Blue Frog" for Peter Paul and Mary. To be fair to Les, "Rational Passional" and the improvised jams with music and Les lyric made up on the spot were the prime reason we got signed to Elektra originally. But without the rest of the SWU, Les floundered on his own and left music as a full time occupation.
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Post by sirrastus on Nov 15, 2016 14:52:21 GMT
Les sounded pretty bad on that whole show.Flat and pretty tuneless.
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Post by markus on Nov 15, 2016 15:52:25 GMT
Les sounded pretty bad on that whole show.Flat and pretty tuneless. There is some discussion regarding this performance/recording on the other website, and there appear to have been technical reasons (mix, monitors, etc.) as to why Les sounds off at certain points. Considering that - and the youthfulness of the group at that point - he sounds pretty good especially - as Ralph noted - on the slower/mid-tempo songs. I'm sure as the pace/intensity/volume picked up with certain songs, he was probably hanging on for dear life. Having said that, there's no doubt that Eric had the better skill set and level of professionalism the band was looking for at the time.
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Post by duckbarman on Nov 15, 2016 16:05:51 GMT
Les sounded pretty bad on that whole show.Flat and pretty tuneless. So far as I can tell, he was having a lot of trouble hearing himself because the monitors weren't working - so, if you're a singer, you'd be very frightened of "going for it" because you could easily be well out of key with the rest of the band, and you wouldn't really be able to tell at the time... it's got to be a pretty horrible position to be in... on the "quieter", slower songs where he had a chance to hear what he was doing, I thought he did well - eg Queen's Blvd and Rational etc... However - some of the SWU songs really didn't suit his style - eg Arthur Comics, Curse, Bonomos - and I don't think he even tries to do those ones justice, and they were miles better done as SFG... I'm really liking that mysterious second song, though - it's a pain not having the title as I can't list it!! There are a a few SWU-era song titles I know of, but have never heard the actual song, for example: American Dream (AKA "Home From the Hill") The Burning Man Hangin' Round Mystic Stump Maybe it was one of those? I've started listing all the pre-BOC that I know about here - the page content is still being compiled, so any help/additions from anyone would be appreciated: www.hotrails.co.uk/prehistory/features/early_songs.htm
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Post by duckbarman on Nov 15, 2016 16:08:31 GMT
Just notice Markus addressed the sound problems they had on the night also, and I agree.
It's just such a shame that the one gig that pops out of the ether and lays itself at our feet after all these years had technical issues that stops us being able to judge it properly and fairly...
... and dance... apparently, we are not allowed to dance until the sawdust arrives... damn...
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Post by Buck on Nov 15, 2016 16:33:20 GMT
The dance issue and Les' rap is probably the best part of the recording. It obviously sounds like the recording was made with the vocal mics. You barely hear the band.
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Post by sirrastus on Nov 16, 2016 3:24:43 GMT
The thing is Les sounded really good in Paris a few years back.And the songs on SWU were all improved by Eric and Buck singing them.I was disappointed in how Rational Passional sounded.I did get a kick out of Les Ray Davies affectation in Queens Blvd.With a bit of the Brit for John Q Sullivan too.
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Post by duckbarman on Nov 16, 2016 13:47:28 GMT
Just a postscript, since I had asked the question: Albert has confirmed that track 2 is "the legendary Mystic Stump". He also mentioned that this song provided the "Dumb clouds are raging" section from Cagey, and now that he's pointed it out, it seems obvious...
All that remains now, like with many a Meltzer lyric, is to ponder over just what the hell was he going on about...?
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Post by robreich on Nov 17, 2016 12:13:03 GMT
Thanks for leading the way on finding this, Ralph.
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Post by sirrastus on Nov 19, 2016 5:19:31 GMT
Not to say that none of this would grow on me as many other cuts took me a long time to get into that I now think are great.Took me some time to get into ST Cecelia now I think it's great and Bucks lead is the best west coast progressive extended lead I've ever heard. I'm actually enjoying Buddha's Knee for the SB show.
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Post by robreich on Nov 19, 2016 14:43:49 GMT
I've always liked Rational Passional and Queen's Boulevard, interesting time capsules.
Rob
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Post by duckbarman on Nov 19, 2016 17:43:25 GMT
Not to say that none of this would grow on me as many other cuts took me a long time to get into that I now think are great.Took me some time to get into ST Cecelia now I think it's great and Bucks lead is the best west coast progressive extended lead I've ever heard. For me, St Cecelia is the best track on a great album - it'd be interesting to hear what else Andy Winters might have come up with, had he persisted... his original lyrics sound like they would have been a bit weak (the song was called "Green" initially) so it's a good thing Sandy Pearlman stepped in)... nonetheless, it'd be VERY interesting to hear that first version, if only to hear the progression... > I'm actually enjoying Buddha's Knee for the SB show
Me too - and I especially enjoy hearing the echoes and ghosts of future songs we'd subsequently be treated to, such as the snippets of "What is Quicksand" etc that you hear in the middle of that track...
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Post by Buck on Nov 20, 2016 21:01:52 GMT
Not to say that none of this would grow on me as many other cuts took me a long time to get into that I now think are great.Took me some time to get into ST Cecelia now I think it's great and Bucks lead is the best west coast progressive extended lead I've ever heard. For me, St Cecelia is the best track on a great album - it'd be interesting to hear what else Andy Winters might have come up with, had he persisted... his original lyrics sound like they would have been a bit weak (the song was called "Green" initially) so it's a good thing Sandy Pearlman stepped in)... nonetheless, it'd be VERY interesting to hear that first version, if only to hear the progression... > I'm actually enjoying Buddha's Knee for the SB show
Me too - and I especially enjoy hearing the echoes and ghosts of future songs we'd subsequently be treated to, such as the snippets of "What is Quicksand" etc that you hear in the middle of that track... St. Cecelia is a Sandy Pearlman lyric. The music was taken from Andy Winter's song, "Green." The original Green lyrics was a play on two primary colors, blue and yellow, a couple, when united, become green.
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Post by duckbarman on Nov 20, 2016 21:26:58 GMT
For me, St Cecelia is the best track on a great album - it'd be interesting to hear what else Andy Winters might have come up with, had he persisted... his original lyrics sound like they would have been a bit weak (the song was called "Green" initially) so it's a good thing Sandy Pearlman stepped in)... nonetheless, it'd be VERY interesting to hear that first version, if only to hear the progression... St. Cecelia is a Sandy Pearlman lyric. The music was taken from Andy Winter's song, "Green." The original Green lyrics was a play on two primary colors, blue and yellow, a couple, when united, become green. That's why I suggested it was good that Sandy stepped in with his lyrical revision - all Andy Winters says he can recall of the original lyric was: "You sit in the blue, I in yellow, You succumb and we are green..." He says he based it on a poem by John Wiesenthal's sister, Tina... But it would still be interesting to hear the original...
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