|
Post by duckbarman on Apr 29, 2019 16:20:56 GMT
I've come across a scan of an interesting old BOC article written by Danny Sugerman - it's not complete because it was a poor scan, and there's no date or indication of what paper it was from, but from clues mentioned within, it seems to date from around the time of BOC's LA debut at the Palladium on 14 Sep 1973. It was a decent piece, had a few factual inaccuracies like most of them seem to do, but one bit especially caught my eye: Here's the relevant text if you have trouble reading that jpeg above: The titles for their up-coming double LP read like the score to a science fiction conglomerate drama/thriller: "'Mommy' is by R. Meltzer and we're thinking of which Australian girl to dedicate it to, 'Harvester of Eyes' comes next followed by 'Cagey Creaton' [sic], 'Dominance and Submission' by Sandy, 'Shot While Trying to Escape', which is our first blues number and was influenced by Humphrey Bogart, 'Flaming Telepaths', 'ME-262', 'Career of Evil' by Patti Smith, 'Come Ladies Fish and Gentlemen', about the Blue Oyster Cult, 'After the Kiss' which runs into 'Blackcap' and then 'Captain's Tongue'.So, Secret Treaties (or "Power in the Hands of Fools" as it was being prospectively touted in the press pieces around that time) was going to be a double album? I don't think I've heard anything about this before. Remember, this was from around the time that the decisions presumably were being made about what's going to be on the album which I would guess was actually recorded in Jan 74. Interesting item of note: no Astronomy was mentioned above, which for most people is BOC's pinnacle of sublimity... And that mention of "After the Kiss" and a "Blackcap" is an intriguing throw back to the first LP - it'd be interesting to know a bit more about those... Anyway, if you extract the tracks that we KNOW made it onto the (single) album from the above, that leaves: Mommy Shot While Trying to Escape (Humphrey Bogart??!!) After the Kiss Blackcap Captain's Tongue Add to these the other demos that we know that were recorded for this LP (other than Mommy): Boorman The Chauffeur Mes Dames Sarat And that makes 7 extra tracks - at least - that could have had the full Treaties treatment with a double release... #the_mind_boggles
|
|
|
Post by robreich on Apr 29, 2019 23:52:01 GMT
Damn, that's interesting.
|
|
|
Post by agent on Apr 29, 2019 23:55:02 GMT
Rabbit Out of A Hat...
|
|
|
Post by Buck on Apr 30, 2019 3:06:59 GMT
It reads like the interview was with Albert or Joe Bouchard, likely Albert. Someone should ask him. I don't recognize any of the titles that aren't accounted for.
|
|
|
Post by duckbarman on Apr 30, 2019 12:42:36 GMT
I don't recognize any of the titles that aren't accounted for. Damn - I was hoping you'd say "Ah yes... our Humphrey Bogart blues song... I'd forgotten all about that..." Oh well... But I'll certainly put those song titles to Albert and Joe though and see if they have any clue what they might be... Of course, the situation isn't helped by the fact that sometimes, in interviews and articles, how can I put this delicately...? Not always the full truth may have been imparted to the eager journalists in attendance... but if those were bogus titles, it's weird because they were mixed in with so many that we do know were kosher - and in that regard, "Come Ladies Fish and Gentlemen" was an interesting inclusion also... > It reads like the interview was with Albert or Joe Bouchard, likely Albert. Someone should ask him
Actually, it seemed to be mainly Sandy, with EB, Albert and yourself chipping in here and there. Here it is - as I mentioned, it's not a good scan, unfortunately - the first 5 characters or so are missing from the entire left column which doesn't help, but luckily, that's mainly introductory text, but I certainly learned some new stuff from this - not just the unknown song titles, but the fact that ST was initially going to be a double LP etc, plus the bit about Columbia wanting you in 1970 but Murray but the kibosh on it...
|
|
|
Post by luxexterior on Apr 30, 2019 13:43:05 GMT
Secret Treaties is my farourite BOC album so I think it is pretty much perfect as it is. However if the outtakes/bonus tracks on the Legacy version of the album are anything to go by then only Mommy cuts it (sounds like a precursor of The Stranglers to my ears)but who knows maybe the unheard songs are better & the others would have been polished up & it could have been twice as good. I'd love to hear the previously unknown songs but I guess if recordings existed we would have heard them by now.
|
|
|
Post by Buck on Apr 30, 2019 14:29:51 GMT
The only thing I remember is that Mommy was in consideration at the time of Secret Treaties but didn't make the cut, it didn't fit and wasn't up to snuff with the rest of the ST songs.
|
|
|
Post by frog on Apr 30, 2019 15:31:06 GMT
The only thing I remember is that Mommy was in consideration at the time of Secret Treaties but didn't make the cut, it didn't fit and wasn't up to snuff with the rest of the ST songs. But was it really considered as a double album ?
|
|
|
Post by Buck on Apr 30, 2019 16:26:23 GMT
Maybe Sandy Pearlman envisioned a double album at that point in time, but he had been campaigning for us to do "Imaginos" in its entirety all along. The band wanted to record songs from all sources, not just Sandy.
|
|
|
Post by duckbarman on Apr 30, 2019 17:57:03 GMT
he had been campaigning for us to do "Imaginos" in its entirety all along. Ah well, I'm with Sandy on that one - I love OYFOOYK, but I could have waited a bit longer for that to come out: 1975 should have seen the release of the triple Imaginos album! Such an endeavour done by that BOC at that time would have been the bee's bollocks, as my old gran used to say... When you read back over all the old articles and press cuttings etc in chronological order, you can pretty much see Sandy's influence over the band's direction (for want of a better word) declining all the time as we're heading up to AOF - in articles, EB would openly bridle against the occasional press portrayal of the band as "Pearlman's puppets" etc and I can understand how this would start to engender resentment and start to drive a wedge between the two factions - "he wants us to do A, so we're going to do B" etc etc... as I say, all that is very understandable, but I do consider it a massive, massive shame that his influence didn't reign over the band for just a shade longer, just long enough for him to convince the band to turn their creative attention to the prospect of working towards giving birth to a proper 3 album baby Imaginos... After that, he could have sat back, content that his job was done... it'd be like when Kwai Chang Caine finally managed to snatch the pebble from his Master's hand which meant that it was time to leave the temple and set out on his own... erm... with the law after him... oh dear, I think I just broke my analogy... Oh well, it might seem a bit churlish to bemoan the idea that we never got a double Secret Treaties LP because we did get such an outstanding single album - that I will freely concede - but if the focus then shifts to the idea of a triple Imaginos done by the original band, then I think I am justified in doffing my hat and bowing my head in silent contemplation for that which might have been...
|
|
|
Post by luxexterior on Apr 30, 2019 18:03:30 GMT
A triple Imaginos! Now that really would have been something. Totally agree re OYFOOYK, I love it as well but I've always thought that following ST another killer studio album might have been a better move.
|
|
|
Post by luxexterior on Apr 30, 2019 18:06:36 GMT
The only thing I remember is that Mommy was in consideration at the time of Secret Treaties but didn't make the cut, it didn't fit and wasn't up to snuff with the rest of the ST songs. I think it's pretty good but can see your point. I can't see where it would have fitted on the album being very different from everything else on there. Maybe you could have released it has a single.
|
|
|
Post by duckbarman on May 1, 2019 12:14:38 GMT
In one respect, you could take "Mommy" to be harmlessly humourous on a cartoon level - "poisonous mouse" indeed - or maybe some sort of cathartic expression giving vent to a fantasy release of negative emotions etc, but I've always thought of it as just being a bit too nasty for my tastes - dunno what happened in Meltzer's personal life to prompt that particular paean to misogyny, but you'd have hoped it might have had its edges softened a bit if it had ever made its way onto the album...
|
|
|
Post by luxexterior on May 1, 2019 13:33:32 GMT
In one respect, you could take "Mommy" to be harmlessly humourous on a cartoon level - "poisonous mouse" indeed - or maybe some sort of cathartic expression giving vent to a fantasy release of negative emotions etc, but I've always thought of it as just being a bit too nasty for my tastes - dunno what happened in Meltzer's personal life to prompt that particular paean to misogyny, but you'd have hoped it might have had its edges softened a bit if it had ever made its way onto the album... Point taken. I've always though it was tongue in cheek & not to be taken seriously. You can only guess what was going on in Richard Meltzer's mind though, for this or pretty much anything else he had a hand in.
|
|
|
Post by frog on May 2, 2019 7:44:13 GMT
I'd love to have a... let's call that a map of influence of early BÖC with the different factions pushing and pulling the band in their chosen direction... Pearlman, Krugman, Meltzer, Patti Smith, Helen Wheels... And of course I'd love to have all those demos that exist and that we'll never listen to... work in progress, totally unheard of tracks... hey, I can dream...
|
|