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Post by duckbarman on Nov 24, 2020 9:34:34 GMT
And Ralph, I didn’t think Max was saying that he’d heard the Imaginos tracks like he had the Agents tracks, I thought he was just reporting song titles. I’ll read it again (thanks for posting). Well, he said "I heard snippets from both" - he then goes on to describe what "both" referred to: the first mentions "the rough cuts I listened to" whilst, with the the second, he says "from initial hearing it sounds like it could be the first important concept album, a new horizon altogether." He then says: "'When The Party's Over (Magna Of Illusion)' is wipeout." He wouldn't describe it as "wipeout" if he'd only been told the title and what the song was about... he has to have heard something to have made that sort of judgement... hence my conclusion that early Imaginos demos must exist... but I don't know who, besides the obvious suspect, could be on them...
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Post by frog on Nov 24, 2020 10:09:49 GMT
And Ralph, I didn’t think Max was saying that he’d heard the Imaginos tracks like he had the Agents tracks, I thought he was just reporting song titles. I’ll read it again (thanks for posting). Well, he said "I heard snippets from both" - he then goes on to describe what "both" referred to: the first mentions "the rough cuts I listened to" whilst, with the the second, he says "from initial hearing it sounds like it could be the first important concept album, a new horizon altogether." He then says: "'When The Party's Over (Magna Of Illusion)' is wipeout." He wouldn't describe it as "wipeout" if he'd only been told the title and what the song was about... he has to have heard something to have made that sort of judgement... hence my conclusion that early Imaginos demos must exist... but I don't know who, besides the obvious suspect, could be on them...
Buck ? do you remember anything about those demos ? like, their existence ?
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Post by marty on Nov 24, 2020 15:00:43 GMT
Sure, I see all things BÖC through Roeser colored glasses, so naturally I’m not going to love an album that has Marc Beiderman playing, or Robbie Krieger, or whoever, when it oughta be Buck. No shocker that the album tanked. Not even the starry wisdom could save it. I just thank god that BÖC didn’t take Biederman et al on tour to play the songs, with Buck providing the vocals, behind the curtain. Like I said, I loved hearing the songs on tour, but not THAT much. #HereForTheSongsWithBuckOnGuitar was that a possibility i hope not. (I totally understand you on Imaginos, Marty. I sometime agree, I sometime don't. even without taking the... money... thing and its consequences in consideration.) No, it never would have happened, I was just using that as a hypothetical to describe how bogus the idea was, in the first place. Nothing wrong with the music, itself. Like Buck said, it wasn’t their record. I love the re-Imaginos idea, a lot better. Wish Albert the best, with it.
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Post by Buck on Nov 24, 2020 18:08:07 GMT
I can't imagine that Albert or Sandy would have played Max recordings from "Agents" before its release. Maybe it was song demos Albert was working on. I don't know. It was long ago and far away. : )
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Post by duckbarman on Nov 25, 2020 15:22:04 GMT
As for Sandy P. getting fans and people like Max Bell fired up, well that was one of Sandy's persuasive gifts. He could get others excited by his concepts and ideas. He certainly did with the original Soft White Underbelly and BOC lineup. I can definitely appreciate that when Sandy was in 'full on' promotion mode, the dial often went up to '11', but this statement seemed so specific. Here he was in early '75 telling a UK journalist that the next studio LP was going to be the Imaginos concept album... Buck - can I just get a clarification on this aspect: at that time in 1975, from your p.o.v. as a band member, was it ever a definite prospect that the next album you were going to produce was going to be Imaginos? Obviously, it seems as if Sandy was under that impression, but was the band, if only maybe initially? For fans outside looking in, Sandy still seemed to be BOC's unofficial auteur - you got the impression his vision still shaped the output and direction of the band, but obviously, as 1975 progressed, Sandy's grip on the creative reins had been starting to slip and by 1976, BOC's bungo pony was seemingly allowed to run free and unshackled, towards a (hopeful) commercially successful future... But another factor, it seems to me, is that fans who had been hoping to see Imaginos as that 4th studio album cannot have had their cause furthered by the decision to kit out band members with their own home studio recorders, leading to what must have been a more individualised creative process so far as submitting demos for the next album was going to be concerned. This does not look to be a useful recipe to lead a collaborative group effort for a largely-Pearlman influenced concept album... There are probably a whole bunch of reasons with differing degrees of severity which resulted in the fracturing of the relationship between Sandy and the band, but I've often wondered if Imaginos had any part to play in that... BTW: there are some who think that one of the major underlying causes of the schism between Sandy and Allen involved Patti Smith, but I don't know how much credence to put into that... :-)
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Post by edog40 on Nov 25, 2020 15:38:14 GMT
Well, at last one of rock and roll's greatest mysteries is somewhat wrapped up, at least for me. Next up is to find out why Buddy Holly crashed Lynard Skynards plane and why did John Lennon shoot John Hinckley in front of his house?
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Post by agent on Nov 25, 2020 16:19:35 GMT
I Like Imaginos. Not interested in Reimagining anything at this time...
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Post by The Ocean on Nov 25, 2020 23:08:42 GMT
I Like Imaginos. Not interested in Reimagining anything at this time... I will say that I certainly wasn't ASKING for it, but if he's putting something like that out, I'll happily take it. Imaginos seems like it is ripe for being made into a SyFy original series like Battlestar Galacta, The Magicians, or Van Helsing. Or maybe by Netflix like Warrior Nun or Lucifer. When I was a kid TV sci fi series were basically for kids or adults with low standards, now the quality is pretty incredible. I bet a three season TV series spanning the arc of the Imaginos story would be incredible.
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Post by beanguy on Nov 26, 2020 15:52:23 GMT
I Like Imaginos. Not interested in Reimagining anything at this time... I will say that I certainly wasn't ASKING for it, but if he's putting something like that out, I'll happily take it. Imaginos seems like it is ripe for being made into a SyFy original series like Battlestar Galacta, The Magicians, or Van Helsing. Or maybe by Netflix like Warrior Nun or Lucifer. When I was a kid TV sci fi series were basically for kids or adults with low standards, now the quality is pretty incredible. I bet a three season TV series spanning the arc of the Imaginos story would be incredible. I remember finding Space 1999 absolutely unwatchable. Besides recycling two actors from Mission, Impossible, the corniness was off the charts.
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druid
Junior Member
Posts: 93
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Post by druid on Nov 26, 2020 21:02:14 GMT
I will say that I certainly wasn't ASKING for it, but if he's putting something like that out, I'll happily take it. Imaginos seems like it is ripe for being made into a SyFy original series like Battlestar Galacta, The Magicians, or Van Helsing. Or maybe by Netflix like Warrior Nun or Lucifer. When I was a kid TV sci fi series were basically for kids or adults with low standards, now the quality is pretty incredible. I bet a three season TV series spanning the arc of the Imaginos story would be incredible. I remember finding Space 1999 absolutely unwatchable. Besides recycling two actors from Mission, Impossible, the corniness was off the charts. UFO was another show produced around the same time as Space 1999, same UK production company. I was a kid and excited for any sci-fi shows, but now as an adult find them amusing and cool in a way.
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Post by edog40 on Nov 26, 2020 23:34:19 GMT
I will say that I certainly wasn't ASKING for it, but if he's putting something like that out, I'll happily take it. Imaginos seems like it is ripe for being made into a SyFy original series like Battlestar Galacta, The Magicians, or Van Helsing. Or maybe by Netflix like Warrior Nun or Lucifer. When I was a kid TV sci fi series were basically for kids or adults with low standards, now the quality is pretty incredible. I bet a three season TV series spanning the arc of the Imaginos story would be incredible. I remember finding Space 1999 absolutely unwatchable. Besides recycling two actors from Mission, Impossible, the corniness was off the charts. Space 1999 had some great toys.
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Post by stitsel on Nov 27, 2020 16:55:52 GMT
I had a Space 1999 spaceship toy.....I loved that show in the 70s! It was post-2001:A Space Odyssey/pre-Star Wars & I was already a bona-fide sci-fi junkie by that time....anyways, back to the subject at hand: I too saw the Cult on the Imaginos tour, bought the album & loved it at the time....however it hasn't aged as well as the rest & I rarely put it on anymore....but it's an indispensable part of the collection, so hey....I mean, it's cool & it's actually good in some spots, certainly it brings back some good memories.I had to figure out some of the guitar riffs back in the day, some cool stuff for sure. I'm curious about any of Buck's recollections about actual guitar playing on that album; who played what, & when...on what song etc. I was seriously taken by the solo on The Siege & Investiture of Baron Von Frankenstein's Castle at Weisseria ( did I get that right?!? ), only to find out decades later it was maybe Satch? I actually loved several of the tunes, thinking back now....loved Roger's vox on "Imaginos" ....& what did Krieger play on? Hmmmm..... anyways, I'm glad it's out there & a few of those tunes made it onto comp tapes I would make back then.So, the new Re-Imaginos......I had to get it, I guess.Love Al, I've had the pleasure of hanging out with him on a few occasions & he's always a hoot, we had some cool conversations, & not just about music & his "scene" or whatever....so anyways, it's cool I guess, & actually gets better with a few repeated spins.Not exactly what I was pining for, but I'm glad he's gotten this off his chest & I'm happy for him, & I give him an A for effort.It's a cool little curio I'd say.... Also, I always used to check out guitarists gear ( still do sometimes ) & remember those Rockman stacks Buck had back then....those things actually sounded quite ferocious if I remember correctly...! Especially playing some of the Black & White era stuff.... good times......
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Post by edog40 on Nov 27, 2020 19:16:34 GMT
That 1999 spaceship worked well with the Star Wars action figures that came later.
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Post by James on Nov 27, 2020 21:14:15 GMT
At risk of hijacking this thread, thought I'd make a recommendation for podcast fans. BBC radio has done three seasons of "Lovecraft Investigations"; The Case of Charles Dexter Ward, The Whisperer in Darkness & The Shadow Over Innsmouth. They all tie in together and the latest one reveals a character who sounds a lot like Imaginos. While the character isn't Imaginos, it's obvious how HP Lovecraft was an inspiration for Sandy Pearlman's Imaginos story. Since I'm not good at reviews, here is a description of season one: www.theverge.com/2019/1/27/18198773/bbc-the-case-of-charles-dexter-ward-podcast-hp-lovecraft-julian-simpson-pod-hunters-listenWhile I'm a big fan of horror fiction and weird fiction and I love what some authors have done with the Lovecraft mythos, I've never actually read HP Lovecraft so I can't vouch for how his stories square up with the content of the podcast. That said, the series is really well done; voice acting and production are terrific. Also, this podcast is definitely creepy at times.
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Post by edog40 on Dec 2, 2020 21:04:52 GMT
Ok, did the song "Blue Oyster Cult" become "Subhuman" or were they similar but different songs?
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