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Post by wrax on Oct 17, 2020 9:55:03 GMT
Great thread! My favourite BOC album in T&M, maybe because it was one of the first records I bought as a kid (13 or 14) and played it over and over. I knew every second of every song, every bit of Eric phrasing, every riff, every little solo or bridge. Imagine my delight when about ten years ago I got a copy of the quadrophonic mix of T&M - I had no idea there was a quad mix - with the totally different vocal mix, all the whoops and aahs right up there in your face. Love it. 7 Screaming Dizbusters is my favourite song. The first time I heard it live (not until London 2006) I kind of lost it. I'm not a small person and the sight of me leaping around in sheer delight screaming "Yes Yes" must have been a little frightening for those standing near me.
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Post by marty on Oct 17, 2020 14:06:57 GMT
When you put it that way, Lauren...maybe it’s not so overrated, after all. I suspect, looking back, that I didn’t take time to give Treaties a thorough chance, having moved on when OYF came out. I’m just a guitar solo kind of guy, I guess. Plus, I rate them based on how they impacted me when they came out. I still need to re-listen, to the entire cultfolio, with headphones, maybe I’ll reconsider. I originally studied film before changing majors to something more "practical" in undergrad, and part of my lifelong love of film was the desire to look at all component parts of one both individually, and as a whole, and all the relation to each other. An album is like a film to me. There are a lot of creative visions going into the creation of an album and no two circumstances could ever produce the same album over again. I'm amazed that men in their late twenties produced something of that quality, in much the same way as Rush producing 2112, or Pearl Jam with Ten, etc. When I see an album, I see layers, interdependent but also marvelous on their own. Neal Schon is a BRILLIANT guitarist, but when you listen to the songs of Journey, yeah there are overdubs, but there are many layers you can take away without changing the character of the songs. In Secret Treaties and most BOC records, to me, the layers are essential to those songs. And I don't mean just the individual tracks, but how one track changes the other. How one of Buck's links quotes a vocal line here and there, one of Allen's little flourishes between the other standout moments, etc. Really love your approach, I identify with valuing records based primarily on the instrumentation, sound, flow, and the way it moves me, especially melodies, harmonies, and hooks and little flourishes, especially guitar. I really place no value in themes or concepts or reputation, as if, unless it fits in with the Imaginos saga, it’s “less than”, or, it can’t be primo BÖC unless it fits some preconceived or backstory mythos. THAT is why I see Treaties as overrated. The music, the songs, themselves, are worthy of top rating, based on your criteria, but to me, it isn’t of significance or heightened glory, because of how it frames the Pearlman/Bouchard thematic random access myth silliness.
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Post by luxexterior on Oct 17, 2020 15:07:56 GMT
Paul Simon is a way better song writer than Bob Dylan !!! Actually so is Neil Young !??!
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Post by The Ocean on Oct 17, 2020 16:26:07 GMT
I originally studied film before changing majors to something more "practical" in undergrad, and part of my lifelong love of film was the desire to look at all component parts of one both individually, and as a whole, and all the relation to each other. An album is like a film to me. There are a lot of creative visions going into the creation of an album and no two circumstances could ever produce the same album over again. I'm amazed that men in their late twenties produced something of that quality, in much the same way as Rush producing 2112, or Pearl Jam with Ten, etc. When I see an album, I see layers, interdependent but also marvelous on their own. Neal Schon is a BRILLIANT guitarist, but when you listen to the songs of Journey, yeah there are overdubs, but there are many layers you can take away without changing the character of the songs. In Secret Treaties and most BOC records, to me, the layers are essential to those songs. And I don't mean just the individual tracks, but how one track changes the other. How one of Buck's links quotes a vocal line here and there, one of Allen's little flourishes between the other standout moments, etc. Really love your approach, I identify with valuing records based primarily on the instrumentation, sound, flow, and the way it moves me, especially melodies, harmonies, and hooks and little flourishes, especially guitar. I really place no value in themes or concepts or reputation, as if, unless it fits in with the Imaginos saga, it’s “less than”, or, it can’t be primo BÖC unless it fits some preconceived or backstory mythos. THAT is why I see Treaties as overrated. The music, the songs, themselves, are worthy of top rating, based on your criteria, but to me, it isn’t of significance or heightened glory, because of how it frames the Pearlman/Bouchard thematic random access myth silliness. I never gave the mythos that much thought because my first listens were as somebody entirely unaware of it. Thought The Subhuman was almost like a horror movie of somebody stranded on the beach, chased by hideous shellfish-creatures.
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Post by sirrastus on Oct 17, 2020 22:26:22 GMT
Really love your approach, I identify with valuing records based primarily on the instrumentation, sound, flow, and the way it moves me, especially melodies, harmonies, and hooks and little flourishes, especially guitar. I really place no value in themes or concepts or reputation, as if, unless it fits in with the Imaginos saga, it’s “less than”, or, it can’t be primo BÖC unless it fits some preconceived or backstory mythos. THAT is why I see Treaties as overrated. The music, the songs, themselves, are worthy of top rating, based on your criteria, but to me, it isn’t of significance or heightened glory, because of how it frames the Pearlman/Bouchard thematic random access myth silliness. I never gave the mythos that much thought because my first listens were as somebody entirely unaware of it. Thought The Subhuman was almost like a horror movie of somebody stranded on the beach, chased by hideous shellfish-creatures. No that was The Horror Of Party Beach.Had some socko music.LOL:
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Post by The Ocean on Oct 17, 2020 22:31:38 GMT
I never gave the mythos that much thought because my first listens were as somebody entirely unaware of it. Thought The Subhuman was almost like a horror movie of somebody stranded on the beach, chased by hideous shellfish-creatures. No that was The Horror Of Party Beach.Had some socko music.LOL:
That song has a LOT of genres happening at once.
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Post by sirrastus on Oct 17, 2020 22:45:03 GMT
I dig those shirts.The question is were they copying the Beach Boys or vice-versa?
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Post by sirrastus on Oct 17, 2020 22:51:24 GMT
No that was The Horror Of Party Beach.Had some socko music.LOL:
That song has a LOT of genres happening at once. My ten years old ears loved it. My friend Joel Eisner who wrote a terrific Batman book and Lost In Space book actually had some backstory on the Del-Aires which he told me a zillion years ago. BTW for film buffs I saw it with the equally classic Curse Of The Living Corpse which was Roy Scheiders first starring role and co-starring Candace Hilligoss who starred in a classic low budget horror film Carnival of Souls which was a damn eerie movie.
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Post by marty on Oct 18, 2020 17:12:24 GMT
I remember that movie, I was 5. Doesn’t seem so scary, now.
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Post by sirrastus on Oct 18, 2020 18:26:34 GMT
I remember that movie, I was 5. Doesn’t seem so scary, now. You need Count Floyd to announce the film.
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Post by The Ocean on Oct 18, 2020 20:21:41 GMT
I made a comment about Neal Schon in another thread and it got me thinking about Journey. I really don't like Steve Perry's overall body of work. He's a good singer, but he also only has one speed and that's full throttle. A lot of songs by Journey end up sounding the same to me because of it.
But this is the kind of reason I love bands like BOC, Fleetwood Mac, The Beatles, the Beach Boys, Squeeze, The Cars, etc.
edit: I know Greg Rollie sang before Perry, but once Perry came along that became the band's sound, and they even replaced Perry with a soundalike.
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Post by beanguy on Oct 19, 2020 3:05:51 GMT
I made a comment about Neal Schon in another thread and it got me thinking about Journey. I really don't like Steve Perry's overall body of work. He's a good singer, but he also only has one speed and that's full throttle. A lot of songs by Journey end up sounding the same to me because of it. But this is the kind of reason I love bands like BOC, Fleetwood Mac, The Beatles, the Beach Boys, Squeeze, The Cars, etc. edit: I know Greg Rollie sang before Perry, but once Perry came along that became the band's sound, and they even replaced Perry with a soundalike. I'm forever yours, painfully. He is a whiner.
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Post by edog40 on Nov 3, 2020 15:12:37 GMT
I made a comment about Neal Schon in another thread and it got me thinking about Journey. I really don't like Steve Perry's overall body of work. He's a good singer, but he also only has one speed and that's full throttle. A lot of songs by Journey end up sounding the same to me because of it. But this is the kind of reason I love bands like BOC, Fleetwood Mac, The Beatles, the Beach Boys, Squeeze, The Cars, etc. edit: I know Greg Rollie sang before Perry, but once Perry came along that became the band's sound, and they even replaced Perry with a soundalike. I'm forever yours, painfully. He is a whiner. Don't listen to his last solo album then. Free advice...
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Post by edog40 on Nov 3, 2020 15:13:26 GMT
I like Imaginos Astronomy more than the original, but not by much.
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Post by The Ocean on Nov 3, 2020 16:07:50 GMT
I'm forever yours, painfully. He is a whiner. Don't listen to his last solo album then. Free advice... It's a good thing that advise was free, because I don't pay for information I already know LOL.
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