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Post by soonerbillz on Mar 6, 2024 17:48:52 GMT
Interesting take from Neil Young on Rock n Roll and modern vinyl records.
Neil Young: "If you're an artist and you created something and you knew the master was 100 percent great, but the consumer got 5 percent, would you be feeling good? I like to point that out to artists. That's why people listen to music differently today. It's all about the bottom and the beat driving everything, and that's because in the resolution of the music, there's nothing else you can really hear. The warmth and the depth at the high end is gone.
A lot of people that buy vinyl today don’t realize that they’re listening to CD masters on vinyl and that’s because the record companies have figured out that people want vinyl,” Young said in an interview with southern California radio show the Frame. “And they’re only making CD masters in digital, so all the new products that come out on vinyl are actually CDs on vinyl, which is really nothing but a fashion statement.”
"Punk and rock and roll are all the same thing. Or what it degenerated from is what rock and roll is now. It’s not rock and roll. It’s pop. It’s fabricated for the masses. An imitation, a shoddy semblance of what it was. There are still people that play rock and roll, but they call this other music “rock and roll.” It’s Perry Como music compared to real rock and roll. Remember when real rock and roll started? There was real rock and roll, and then that other music that your parents listened to and everything? It’s like rock and roll now is the music that our parents listened to. It’s like gone."
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Post by Buck on Mar 7, 2024 23:47:22 GMT
Neil makes a point. A new vinyl record won't sound like a 45 year old LP copy of Dark Side of the Moon.
The digital master recording for streaming and CD's is the source for today's vinyl disk master, but that 'data' is still "mastered" for the phonograph pressing plant, and will sound different coming off a turntable than the CD. The phonograph record playback medium will put its own 'tone' on the digital master regardless.
Neil is telling people to get off his lawn, in effect. The parents Neil is referring to are HIS parents, not yours. They listened to Perry Como.
I've never listened to a vinyl copy of new BOC records. How do they sound compared to the digital copies?
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Post by joe on Mar 8, 2024 4:17:21 GMT
Digital will always be in the loop somewhere, starting with the studio master. In the loop, to keep the noise down, is the pre-emphasis for the actual vinyl recording (the grooving/cutting/pressing) and de-emphasis on playback (for the "needle on the record") in accordance with the "RIAA curve".
In the old days the "curve" filters were made up of discrete resistor and capacitors. Pure analog. Not sure if any manufacturer has decided to throw in a digital version of that somewhere even though the RC circuits are simple and cheap. Just need precise R C values.
Then there are the USB connected turntables, definitely a digital circuit in there somewhere.
And how many people are still using fully analog amps? And then there's the tube vs transistor argument. If you're plugging into a modern home theater amp, you've got DSP in there somewhere. But I think the manufacturers have pretty much perfected the sound reproduction through the amps. So that does leave the needle to groove as the major difference in sound (my guess).
I have no experience at all with the new vinyl records. I do still have a 70's era turntable hooked up (it hasn't been used in ages) and a fully analog transistor amp purchased at the same time. The amp is currently used for my sub woofer.
So with a couple of wire changes and digging out an extra pair of speakers I COULD have a fully analog playback system. But for me, why? I wonder how much is the actual sound of the music vs the vinyl just being a novelty? I'm sure there would be a difference in sound with all the right "stuff".
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Post by frog on Mar 8, 2024 8:43:06 GMT
I've never listened to a vinyl copy of new BOC records. How do they sound compared to the digital copies? Can't tell you, I have lots of those (new and old-but-recently-issued) and I don't have a LP player ! (yeah, I'm a lost cause...)
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dawa
Full Member
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Post by dawa on Mar 8, 2024 11:47:11 GMT
I have 2 récent boc vinyl :agent of fortune live 2016 and the symbol remains.agent live 2016 sounds very great on vinyl ,better than the cd version.
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Post by phillyculter on Mar 8, 2024 13:32:03 GMT
I have all the BOC Frontiers albums on vinyl and still think they sound superior. I’ve been listening/buying vinyl since I was five ( The Monkees was my first record) and have always had a record player or turntable. If you move a lot it’s not convenient- as I have been lugging around my record collection for years. Ha!
I do think Neil is missing some of the point by calling it a fashion statement. It’s an experience. Sure the music is most important but so is the artwork, liner notes, lyrics, photos etc. Of course you can get that on CD versions, but it’s so small- just not the same- and my eye sight is not getting any younger. Also, “the feel” of the record is missing. Snap crackle and pop is music to my ears! Long live vinyl!
And it’s also nice to see the young people sifting through record bins like everyone used to do back in the old days. : ). Part of the experience…
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Post by joe on Mar 9, 2024 3:00:24 GMT
Wife has been bugging me to get our turntable hooked up again. Actually it's already hooked up, I just need to re-map the input ports on the A/V receiver so that it can be selected. Crossing my fingers that the belt in the player is still good. No telling if I could get a replacement. Easy to get back in the day when I replaced it once.
We have a lot of vinyl, mostly older stuff before CD players were common place. Some in perfect shape, others I don't think I'd let the needle touch. Beatles are probably the earliest, somewhere in the 80's the most recent. She has a stack of 45's but we can't find them, but they're here somewhere. She thinks there's a DFTR in there . Hope so. Will be like a treasure hunt.
You are right about the visual appeal. Some of the cover art is really nice, and everything is easy to read. My wife goes to a used bookstore that sells used records - and goes for the covers! Having the record itself in good shape is a plus.
So maybe shortly I can see what I think now as opposed to what I "remember" from 30 years ago.
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Post by redhouserocker on Mar 9, 2024 4:19:25 GMT
I think Neil is spot on here. Yeah, I have and buy vinyl but have never found it superior to CD. That's not to say that vinyl doesn't add anything to the sound though....I totally get some peoples' perception of "warmth" or "fullness" imparted by vinyl. Again to me this can vary widely with equipment, room, etc. I loved vinyl back in the day but was blown away by how good CDs were when they came out. I stream like most folks do but will always buy CDs for the ultimate experience on my best equipment. I catch grief sometimes from friends who say humans can't really discern the difference as long as the res is at least 320kbps. Now I say 320 is good and that statement might hold true for the vast majority of crap audio systems out there, but I can sure tell the difference on my audiophile level equipment! The vinyl thing is probably a similar phenomenon...although as the volume gets louder. .CD sounds better to me. IMHO
Thanks to Neil and Buck for explaining how modern vinyl is made too...I suspected as much but now we know...
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Post by tambra68 on Mar 10, 2024 6:11:31 GMT
History repeats itself; vinyl is back. Nope, not the same as back in the day, but it is interesting to see the kids getting into vinyl, kinda funny. I have been scouring high and low for all “old” BÖC vinyl. Although the new sounds great, there is nothing like the original vinyl, in my humble opinion.
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javan
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Post by javan on Mar 11, 2024 19:32:40 GMT
Neil is telling people to get off his lawn, in effect. The parents Neil is referring to are HIS parents, not yours. They listened to Perry Como. LOL. My mother (89 this November though complaining about being on death's doorstep keeps her going) listens to Perry Como. Oh, and my mother was happy to hear that I was able to see you guys last year at the Marin Co. fair. She only knows 1 sliver of BOC (being the piano intro to Joan Crawford) but she knows it's her baby boy's favorite band and she did attempt to drive me to the subway for my 1st BOC show which was the infamous snowed-out DC show in March, 1985.
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Post by duckbarman on Mar 11, 2024 19:54:45 GMT
which was the infamous snowed-out DC show in March, 1985. "Infamous"...? Obviously, you're referring to the Bayou show, but why "infamous"...?
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javan
Full Member
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Post by javan on Mar 12, 2024 2:17:50 GMT
which was the infamous snowed-out DC show in March, 1985. "Infamous"...? Obviously, you're referring to the Bayou show, but why "infamous"...? Because it was snowed out on *my* way to what would have been *my* first BOC show.* Because of that tragedy, I can't say that BOC was my first concert nor did I get to see Joe play with the band (other than the reunion show). (Consolation first concert prize: Oingo Boing. Great show but not BOC.) *I'm letting out my inner Calvin here.
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Post by warrior21 on Mar 13, 2024 1:54:35 GMT
History repeats itself; vinyl is back. Nope, not the same as back in the day, but it is interesting to see the kids getting into vinyl, kinda funny. I have been scouring high and low for all “old” BÖC vinyl. Although the new sounds great, there is nothing like the original vinyl, in my humble opinion. So new vinyl sounds great, but does it sound better than CDs? Music is my passion and the one thing I collect and do not dispose of. I have everything I’ve ever purchased, but after starting with vinyl, moving to cassettes (for convenience in the car mainly), and now having amassed a CD collection of 2,500 or so, no way can I go back to buying predominantly vinyl. I will pick up something “special” (like TSR) or a limited edition, but that’s about it…
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Post by luxexterior on Mar 15, 2024 13:58:20 GMT
History repeats itself; vinyl is back. Nope, not the same as back in the day, but it is interesting to see the kids getting into vinyl, kinda funny. I have been scouring high and low for all “old” BÖC vinyl. Although the new sounds great, there is nothing like the original vinyl, in my humble opinion. So new vinyl sounds great, but does it sound better than CDs? Yes!
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Post by frog on Mar 15, 2024 14:19:59 GMT
So new vinyl sounds great, but does it sound better than CDs? Yes! I beg to differ.
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