|
Post by wrax on Dec 12, 2020 8:51:51 GMT
Great songs, I just could never get past the dense and distant production. The songs off Imaginos come alive when they were played live. Just check out the versions of I Am The One and In The Presence from the Toads 1989 show on BOC's YouTube page.
|
|
|
Post by luxexterior on Dec 12, 2020 9:18:36 GMT
Sandy had many overdub reels of 2" tape where all kinds of musicians had played on Imaginos. I have no idea what was actually used to mix the the Columbia record. I just know I played much more guitar in the sessions that was used on the LP. EDIT I just read Joe's imaginos comments from the link above. Sounds like his experience with guitar overdubs was similar to mine. What he didn't realize was the tracks he was 'fixing' wasn't the BOC band playing either. Joe's description of working with Sandy P. pretty much mirrors ours by that time in Sandy's producer evolution. He'd do so many takes it took all the spontaneity and vibe out of the performance. Its both interesting & sad to read your comments about Sandy P's producer evolution. Back in the seventies I would say that to my ears anyway he was among the worlds best producers. Not only all the BOC up to & especially Agents & Spectres but also the three Dictators albums, the two with Pavlov's Dog (especially Pampered Menial) & Give 'em Enough Rope with The Clash. In fact I would say he gave The Clash their guitar sound; pre Sandy P they sounded ragged & thin from GEER on their guitars always sounded big & ferocious.
I also liked what he did with Shakin' Street & The Dream Syndicate in the eighties. Talking of The Dream Syndicate I can Remember Steve Wynn complaining a few years after The Medicine Show was released that Sandy P's insistence on multiple takes made making that album a misery & often killed their performance. I have to say that I think MS is a great & also great sounding album but SW's comments echo yours re the multiple takes & spontaneity. It seems a shame, what happened I wonder. Did Murray Krugman reign him in in the studio in the early days?
|
|
|
Post by Alessandro on Dec 12, 2020 13:53:37 GMT
Great songs, I just could never get past the dense and distant production. The songs off Imaginos come alive when they were played live. Just check out the versions of I Am The One and In The Presence from the Toads 1989 show on BOC's YouTube page. too many overdubs and tape deterioration simply filled up the sonic spectrum and killed the dynamics. it doesn't matter how much Sandy became obsessed with it after his fall out with Albert, or how bombastic and metallic he wanted the final album to sound, it was simpy impossible to avoid that "muffled" sound. no mixing engineer in the galaxy could 've saved it.
|
|
|
Post by frog on Dec 12, 2020 16:44:08 GMT
I played on Imaginos....prove me wrong. LOL
pure genius.
|
|
|
Post by duckbarman on Dec 12, 2020 19:52:53 GMT
At least once a day, regular as clockwork, a certain guitarist will make a "I played the solo"-themed Imaginos posting on one of the BOC FaceBook groups... it doesn't matter what the thread/topic might be, somehow there'll always be a "BOC and Me! I played the guitar solo on Siege!" post...
What I would love to happen is someone like Paul Mandl to post one day "Actually, no, you didn't - once you'd gone home, I got my nephew in to play some overdubs and we used those...
|
|
|
Post by Alessandro on Dec 12, 2020 23:52:09 GMT
At least once a day, regular as clockwork, a certain guitarist will make a "I played the solo"-themed Imaginos posting on one of the BOC FaceBook groups... it doesn't matter what the thread/topic might be, somehow there'll always be a "BOC and Me! I played the guitar solo on Siege!" post... What I would love to happen is someone like Paul Mandl to post one day "Actually, no, you didn't - once you'd gone home, I got my nephew in to play some overdubs and we used those... you mean some guy who can't even spell John McLaughlin correctly?
|
|
|
Post by zenman on Dec 13, 2020 6:02:40 GMT
At least once a day, regular as clockwork, a certain guitarist will make a "I played the solo"-themed Imaginos posting on one of the BOC FaceBook groups... it doesn't matter what the thread/topic might be, somehow there'll always be a "BOC and Me! I played the guitar solo on Siege!" post... What I would love to happen is someone like Paul Mandl to post one day "Actually, no, you didn't - once you'd gone home, I got my nephew in to play some overdubs and we used those... you mean some guy who can't even spell John McLaughlin correctly? Is that the guy who played on Imaginos?
|
|
|
Post by Buck on Dec 13, 2020 8:12:07 GMT
>Did Murray Krugman reign him in in the studio in the early days?
No, early on we all made records pretty much the way it was traditionally done. I think later on Sandy was influenced by producers like Mutt Lange and Roy Thomas Baker who would spend countless hours and performances on an album perfecting it. Sandy thought he knew what he was looking for. Or maybe what he was looking for eluded him. The master tape reels for Imaginos didn't get alll that much play except it was mixed twice. All the later overdubs were on slave reels. The bookkeeping must have been daunting. I was unimpressed with the finished sound of Imaginos on disk. I thought it sounded better when in the studio, recording my vocals and guitars. Too bad he missed the digital age, he could have had almost unlimited tracks and re-do's without any degradation.
|
|
|
Post by luxexterior on Dec 14, 2020 17:19:22 GMT
>Did Murray Krugman reign him in in the studio in the early days? No, early on we all made records pretty much the way it was traditionally done. I think later on Sandy was influenced by producers like Mutt Lange and Roy Thomas Baker who would spend countless hours and performances on an album perfecting it. Sandy thought he knew what he was looking for. Or maybe what he was looking for eluded him. The master tape reels for Imaginos didn't get alll that much play except it was mixed twice. All the later overdubs were on slave reels. The bookkeeping must have been daunting. I was unimpressed with the finished sound of Imaginos on disk. I thought it sounded better when in the studio, recording my vocals and guitars. Too bad he missed the digital age, he could have had almost unlimited tracks and re-do's without any degradation. Thanks for that Buck That's really interesting. I would say that at his peak (Agents/Spectres etc) Sandy P was at least on par with those guys in terms of big multi layered production. To my ears though the difference was that SP had the ability to do that while keeping the edge on guitar sound. Spectres for instance has an almost cinematic quality to the sound but the guitars still rock. Also with MT & RTB as soon as you hear their work you tend to think of them rather than the artist playing. RTB's production also got more laboured & over the top as his career went on losing something on the way.
|
|