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Post by markus on Jun 8, 2017 16:38:30 GMT
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Post by duckbarman on Jun 8, 2017 19:44:28 GMT
Interesting - haven't seen that before... > "He also helped write some of the band's biggest hits including Godzilla and the classic DFTR"...
Hmmm... > "Hitler's Me262, while projecting images of wartime imagery during a concert in Berlin"
Never heard of this before. BTW: the first time BOC actually played in Berlin was 1986, Joe Bouchard's last gig, incidentally... > The result was that BOC were banned in Germany"
Never heard of this, either - the next time BOC were back in Germany - and Berlin - was 1988, so it can't have been a long ban... :-) In fact, BOC have played exactly 100 gigs in West Germany/Germany, so that's almost as many as England (104 gigs) so if that's including a ban, the Germans haven't done too badly... And as for BOC's logo using red and black, "the colours of the Nazi swastika", here's the Bolshevik Party's flag - how Fascist do you reckon THEY are?  |
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Post by markus on Jun 10, 2017 22:14:04 GMT
Ralph, what piqued my interest in the article is not so much the so-called facts (usually wrong and/or sensationalized) about the band and/or its material, but rather the commentary from those on the inside on questions/observations regarding the band/organization that have never been answered.
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Post by Buck on Jun 11, 2017 6:42:40 GMT
Why do people insist on seeing devils behind trees?
Pearlman's fascination with WWII, and Nazi Germany, was primarily historic, as his whole Imaginos scenario was supernatural forces shaping the actual history of Europe in the 18th, 19th and 20th century. I wouldn't read too much into whatever admiration Sandy had for the Jewish oppressor of WWII. We all did appreciate the Germans getting jet engines and rockets going before Americans did. We certainly appreciated that the US and UK, Can and Aus won WWII, and we could already look back on it with the curiousity of distance.
My own experience of growing up on Long Island in the '50's-60's, my Jewish friends were telling the vilest Adolph Eichman jokes at the expense of Jews when he was captured and tried by the Israelis in 1960. I grew up with kids having a gallows sense of humor, and rolling with any of what now is called "bullying." No big deal. Hate wasn't hate then, it was just ranking out and jostling. It wasn't personal and even if it was, it wasn't insurmountable. You didn't need authority to help you deal with it.
I find the current culture of sniffing for any possible offense and whining and stepping on it insufferable.
OTOH, BOC's culturally appropriating the colors and imagery of the Third Reich we all thought was hilarious, but I can see how it was too soon for everybody to feel the same way.
We never took ourselves seriously. And as far as BOC being Nazi boogiemen, we never detected a bit of interest from whatever real Nazis might have been out there. If there were any. Heck, what we did wasn't even in bad taste, compared to what you see every day today.
If I may project, maybe Sandy Pearlman thought of himself as a post-holocaust Jew. Certainly Jewish oppression was over in Germany after the war.
But religion as driver of violence between human inhabitants of earth still persists today, doesn't it? To me, from my lifetime viewpoint, it seems to be thriving. Lame. All of a sudden, Western Civilization and all its benefits seems a bit precarious. It's under attack from all over. I think it's worth defending.
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Post by sirrastus on Jun 11, 2017 19:14:36 GMT
There's certainly enough overt racism and hate now that we don't need to over state everything that might seem to be of a sensitive nature.I thought they started overdoing it when they took black comedy like Amos and Andy and called it racist because they making fun of the characters-LOL it's called comedy.Which didn't mean that Pre-Code films didn't have overt racism but this was a case of oversensitivity and using that in a public forum IMO to garner some attention.And yeah as a Jew I always found my Jewish friends fairly open about making jewish jokes.I think it comes from never taking yourself too seriously and judiciously picking your fights. Of course this led to a very funny sketch on I think Dick Cavetts show where Albert Brooks played a German who was representing an Anti-Defamation group concerning German jokes.The sketch still cracks me up to this day and I must have seen it around '70.
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pacnw
Junior Member
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Post by pacnw on Jun 11, 2017 23:27:47 GMT
I always thought the whole red/black/white thing with the BOC logo was related to the song about the RCMP, not anything to do with Nazis. These instances are similar to the 80's televangelists taking innocuous lyrics and equating them with Satanism. They could take an REO Speedwagon tune and, with a lot of imagination, turn it into something about Lucifer.
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Post by agent on Jun 12, 2017 0:19:12 GMT
Why do people insist on seeing devils behind trees? But religion as driver of violence between human inhabitants of earth still persists today, doesn't it? To me, from my lifetime viewpoint, it seems to be thriving. Lame. All of a sudden, Western Civilization and all its benefits seems a bit precarious. It's under attack from all over. I think it's worth defending. University of Maryland in your backyard, Buck, is keeping score well. Their Terrorist Database is incredible. Seems things picked up in 2001-2015, there were 2506 Worldwide terrorist attacks, 89% (2230) that were Islamic related. In 2016, 1797 attacks, all but 18 Non Islamic related. In 2017, up to June 5, there have been 647, only 15 non Islam related. We could use the imagination of Sandy right now on how to stop this...or at least make some sense of it. |
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Post by sirrastus on Jun 12, 2017 0:59:36 GMT
There's a difference between terrorist attacks and/crime violent crime so I'd be careful with that.
OTOH they(U of M) said that terrorist attacks went down from '014 to '015 (12%) so considering the fact that we killed 45,000 ISIS members in the last two years (and destroyed 800 million dollars) which brought recruiting down I"d like to see how it has affected terror attacks in '015 and '016.One of the issues is our invasion of '03 destablized the ME and left a lot more Iraqis jobless(and the crazy Baathists with nothing else to do) and penniless-I've read some cogent pieces on it and some of these people committed murder(and some have been arrested by Iraqi police) simply because they had to in order to get a paycheck.They don't exactly have a social safety net there).So the ME which was always a hotbed for extremism has become even more so plus every crazy person now claims they're doing it for ISIS when in fact they don't need a reason to stand behind.
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Post by agent on Jun 12, 2017 1:31:13 GMT
There's a difference between terrorist attacks and/crime violent crime so I'd be careful with that. OTOH they(U of M) said that terrorist attacks went down from '014 to '015 (12%) so considering the fact that we killed 45,000 ISIS members in the last two years (and destroyed 800 million dollars) which brought recruiting down I"d like to see how it has affected terror attacks in '015 and '016.One of the issues is our invasion of '03 destablized the ME and left a lot more Iraqis jobless(and the crazy Baathists with nothing else to do) and penniless-I've read some cogent pieces on it and some of these people committed murder(and some have been arrested by Iraqi police) simply because they had to in order to get a paycheck.They don't exactly have a social safety net there).So the ME which was always a hotbed for extremism has become even more so plus every crazy person now claims they're doing it for ISIS when in fact they don't need a reason to stand behind. It looks like 2017 is on track to be less than 2016, so your take is correct. |
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Post by sirrastus on Jun 12, 2017 6:44:32 GMT
Just quoting facts.Losing your recruiting money AND 45K members puts a dent.
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Post by markus on Jun 15, 2017 17:01:35 GMT
But religion as driver of violence between human inhabitants of earth still persists today, doesn't it? To me, from my lifetime viewpoint, it seems to be thriving. Lame. All of a sudden, Western Civilization and all its benefits seems a bit precarious. It's under attack from all over. I think it's worth defending. BD, I might suggest to you a 3-volume set called the Encyclopedia of Wars by Phillips and Axelrod. It chronicles some 1,700+ wars of which 120+ are considered religious in nature of which half are in the name of Islam. As far as Western Civilization being under attack, I couldn't agree more. Whether it's in the form of forced population replacement or the suppression of free speech and stifling of certain scientific disciplines which would undermine the progressive/egalitarian agenda, it's heresy to deem it anything other than axiomatic that the Civilization/Peoples that gave us reason/philosophy, individual rights, science/technology (take a look at the countries of origin/discovery of the periodic table), etc., etc., is considered even remotely preferable (dare not saying the word superior). |
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Post by luxexterior on Jul 4, 2017 8:38:33 GMT
The BOC Nazi thing as always puzzled me, it's clearly a joke (and the jokes on you etc). The Jewish Telegraph piece has a number of mistakes & is probably the product of someone trying to get noticed to further their career or is another case of someone looking for a reason to be offended. So I wouldn't take it seriously.
Given that a significant part of the band their management & cohorts were Jewish I would suggest that it is extremely unlikely any of them were Nazis! I've always thought the Secret Treaties/ME262 etc thing was really funny. Yes I think there was an element of being provocative, it was the seventies & rock music was supposed to be shocking, but it was underpinned with humour. The humour isn't a million miles away from Mel Brookes (Spring time for Hitler & Hitler Rap) & nobody ever suggested that Mel was a Nazi.
Of course Meltzer didn't help with his comments about Allen & Patti Smith but I suspect he was just being provocative, as is his way, or because he had fallen out with Allen &/or the band at that point or else Allen was just joking, unlikely that an antisemite would be in a band whose ethnic make up was as previously mentioned.
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Post by stitsel on Jul 28, 2017 20:39:01 GMT
Why do people insist on seeing devils behind trees? Pearlman's fascination with WWII, and Nazi Germany, was primarily historic, as his whole Imaginos scenario was supernatural forces shaping the actual history of Europe in the 18th, 19th and 20th century. I wouldn't read too much into whatever admiration Sandy had for the Jewish oppressor of WWII. We all did appreciate the Germans getting jet engines and rockets going before Americans did. We certainly appreciated that the US and UK, Can and Aus won WWII, and we could already look back on it with the curiousity of distance. My own experience of growing up on Long Island in the '50's-60's, my Jewish friends were telling the vilest Adolph Eichman jokes at the expense of Jews when he was captured and tried by the Israelis in 1960. I grew up with kids having a gallows sense of humor, and rolling with any of what now is called "bullying." No big deal. Hate wasn't hate then, it was just ranking out and jostling. It wasn't personal and even if it was, it wasn't insurmountable. You didn't need authority to help you deal with it. I find the current culture of sniffing for any possible offense and whining and stepping on it insufferable. OTOH, BOC's culturally appropriating the colors and imagery of the Third Reich we all thought was hilarious, but I can see how it was too soon for everybody to feel the same way. We never took ourselves seriously. And as far as BOC being Nazi boogiemen, we never detected a bit of interest from whatever real Nazis might have been out there. If there were any. Heck, what we did wasn't even in bad taste, compared to what you see every day today. If I may project, maybe Sandy Pearlman thought of himself as a post-holocaust Jew. Certainly Jewish oppression was over in Germany after the war. But religion as driver of violence between human inhabitants of earth still persists today, doesn't it? To me, from my lifetime viewpoint, it seems to be thriving. Lame. All of a sudden, Western Civilization and all its benefits seems a bit precarious. It's under attack from all over. I think it's worth defending. An absolutely wonderful post, and I couldn't agree more. |
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